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  1. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

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    Lyndon Johnson paid for Dwight Eisenhower's mistake in not signing and honoring the Geneva Agreement of 1954. Jimmy Carter paid for Eisenhower's mistake in directing the CIA to overthrow the democratically elected government of Iran.

    At the time these did not seem like mistakes. They seemed like inexpensive victories for "freedom." Nevertheless, it should be obvious even to you that the United States would be better off if the War in Vietnam had not been fought, and if the Iranian Revolution of 1979 had not happened.
     
  2. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

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    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
     
  3. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

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    The Democrat Party made mistakes during the 1960's and '70's. These include the War on Poverty, the appointment of insufficiently punitive judges, forced school busing, and affirmative action. Even when the Democrats made mistakes, they were well intended.

    Anything the Democrat Party has done wrong since then, such as allowing Reagan and Bush II to cut taxes while increasing military spending, were concessions to a Republican Party that had majority support because of earlier Democrat mistakes.

    President Obama made a mistake in addressing health care before reducing the unemployment rate. That was a tactical mistake.
     
  4. Kimiko

    Kimiko Porn Star

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    To return for a moment to the OP, here's an interesting article on the state of the economy under Obama, from a Wall Street perspective.

    *not_secure_link*www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aeSenIUvpSK0&pos=10

     
  5. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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  6. tenguy

    tenguy Reasoned voice of XNXX

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    So you do not think that the citizens wind up paying for these mistakes, when did LBJ write the check? And when can we expect Obama to pony up a few $ trillion?
     
  7. tenguy

    tenguy Reasoned voice of XNXX

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    Did you actually read the whole article?? There are definite signs that the economy is stabilizing, but there a very few signs of recovery, that are not qualified with "but the extreme low point makes it look better than it actually is".

    Obama's policies are not all failing, but they are also not all working as promised either.
     
  8. ace's n 8's

    ace's n 8's Porn Star

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    :excited::excited: WILL YOU SWALLOW,,TOO..........:excited::excited:
     
  9. ace's n 8's

    ace's n 8's Porn Star

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  10. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    You know tenguy I can't find the "extreme low point makes it look better than it actually is" statement in there anywhere. But I did find this:



    *not_secure_link*www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aeSenIUvpSK0&pos=10


    I think those are pretty strong endorsements of President Obama's performance so far.



    Ace, you fucking whore. Get away from her. I swear you're worse than I am.
     
  11. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    Nope, now come on Ace. There was agreement on Iraq but there's a whole new ball game in not just Afghanistan but just as importantly a whole new Pakistan going after the Taliban which you can thank both President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for.

    They've taken out more than a dozen high value targets during the past few weeks, and their offensives and winning the hearts and minds of the Afghanistan people is working.

    They're already talking about when they can begin withdrawing troops from Afghanistan.
     
  12. Old Tool

    Old Tool Porn Star

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    I guess I wish I had it in me to swallow this kind of economic rhetoric so easily. None - absolutely none - of the underlying structures that caused this wreck in the first place have been altered one iota. This stabilization of the downturn looks nice on paper (exactly what the boys on wall street are famous for valuing), but far from demonstrating a fundamentally strong economy, it ought to highlight the inherent dangers that none of our leadership has the stones to address. :-| Sad. More partisan politics 101.

    Now - can anybody point me to something that shows a direct correlation from the actions of either the Bush or Obama administrations to these various curves on a graph? Nobody? Not even the really, really smart guys making 8 figures a year & giving interviews for Bloomberg? :rolleyes: I wonder why that is? perhaps because they know damn well there is no provable correlation . . . if there was they'd be crowing about it morning, noon and night on CNBC, etc.

    As to tenguys point about "recovery" from a low point - a year-over-year comparison is kind of silly when talking about an economy as massive as ours. How about comparing the running average from any 5-year period between the end of the last recession and the beginning of this one? Of course, if you do this you may be depressed about how much false wealth has disintegrated and/or been transferred to the unproductive hoardings of the Fed banks.

    A real world example: my house was worth $1,000,000 when I bought it, but a recession came along and shaved 40% of it's supposed value away . . . then during a one year period of "recovery" it's now worth $660,000 (a healthy 10% annual gain), should I be happy that I'm still upside down in that asset to the tune of $300,000+ ?!?? That sounds ridiculous to me. Guess how much value the bank gets to claim for my mortgage?
     
  13. tim929

    tim929 Porn Star

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    There is still the issue of a declining dollar.The currency we use has been morgaged to the hilt and that has adversly effected its value making recovery alot harder.Look at the price of gold as an example.Gold has a fixed "real" value.Its ability to buy a certain amout of a particular item or commodity hasnt changed apreciably in over 2000 years!As the price of gold goes up it does not reflect the value of the gold you are buying but rather the value of the currency you are using to buy it.And gold prices have been artificialy manipulated since the late 1970's to prevent panic in the currency market.The fact is that the real price of gold is over twice what we are currently paying for it but thanks the the sale of T-bills they kept that under wraps.Now that China and the rest of the world have slowed or even stopped thier purchase of T-bills we see the price of gold edging ever higher.Much of the so called "gains" on wall street have been the result of a revaluing of the dollars underlying those assets more than an actual increase in the value of the stocks themselves.A 20% gain in a particular stock position can be compaired to a 20% increase in the price of gold and suddenly the actual value of your stock positions increase is nil.But it looks good on paper.

    So far that has been the case for the last ten years.The stock markets "actual" value hasnt gone up even a little bit in ten years.But the number of dollars a given stock is traded for has changed considerably.People need to try to understand that a house that you bought with gold twenty years ago can still be bought for about the same amount of gold today.Possibly somewhat more as a function of demand in a particular market but it hasnt gone up as nearly as much as the dollar figure would lead you to believe.

    And we sit and watch TV and eat our pasta and forget all the lessons of history because last time was so much fun!
     
  14. ace's n 8's

    ace's n 8's Porn Star

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    I'm talking about the 'surge' that McChrystal wanted, which resembles Bush's plan, that Obama voted against,as senator, and as president took some 5 months or so for him to make a decision about.

    At the morning briefing, McChrystal tried to make light of stories in the press quoting Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as saying McChrystal's call for more troops was just one opinion among military experts. "She's absolutely right," said McChrystal to his lieutenants. "There are other experts and they're smarter than me," though, he quipped, "not in this room." The jokes were uncharacteristically lame, as if he was struggling to put a bright face on bad news. Later that evening, eating his one meal of the day (salmon salad, chick-en, strawberry shortcake), McChrystal was clearly troubled—"a bit bothered," as he put it—by the rumors appearing in the media that he might resign over his differences with those unnamed other experts in Washington. "It is my responsibility, my duty—my sacred duty," he said, to tell the unvarnished truth to his leaders, but then to carry out their orders. He would not resign, he said, even if they rejected his advice.

    *not_secure_link*www.newsweek.com/id/216237

    Now,, just because I had to look some information up to prove you wrong again, as usual,,,,,,,,,I'm taking Kimi from you for a period of ,,,,,,,,,,,,how's,,,,,,,2 weeks sound.:excited:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2010
  15. tenguy

    tenguy Reasoned voice of XNXX

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    Bingo, thanks OT, your little example of what is really happening in the "recovery" can be played out by millions of American home owners. Whether your home is valued at $45,000 or $45,000,000 the same scenario applies. Certain areas of the country, such as yours and Kimi's, have been hit especially hard, why was that?

    Because the values were based on demand, not on actual brick, mortar and land worth. These values climbed higher every year, giving the false sense of financial security in real estate investments. The reality came knocking and the market adjusted, some areas more than others, but everyone has been affected.

    This same devaluing has hit industry as well, products have lost value as demand has flagged, fire sales are common as business try to convert assets to cash.

    So when someone crows about the great "recovery", they are trying one of the old conservative tricks of Reagan, make people "think" it's happening and it will.
     
  16. Kimiko

    Kimiko Porn Star

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    You're a glass-is-half-empty kind of guy, tenguy. No objective person could read that article and construe it as negative regarding the prospects of this economy. Qualified positive, yes.

    But considering the catastrophic point at which Obama started, I think you have to give him some credit.
     
  17. Kimiko

    Kimiko Porn Star

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    And you want to blame Obama for the decline in your home's value? Sorry, the responsibility for that lies elsewhere, and you know it.
     
  18. Kimiko

    Kimiko Porn Star

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    Had we not been sold a war on false premises, there would have been no need for a "surge", five years into a war that was supposed to be over in a matter of weeks.
     
  19. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

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    And one that was supposed to be paid for by Iraqi oil profits.
     
  20. Kimiko

    Kimiko Porn Star

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    Yes, I seem to recall George Bush making with a lot of happy talk about record levels of home ownership (remember the "ownership society"?) just as he was driving the economy off the cliff.

    Of course the president is going to talk up the economy. One of his priorities has to be to restore confidence, like FDR with that stuff about there being "nothing to fear but fear itself". But this is Bloomberg, not the president.

    Ultimately, the fix for this problem is to re-regulate the financial markets, and there is (finally) some progress in that direction. Furiously opposed, of course, by people like you.